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The Tale of Ali Baba and his 9 Wives
by S.E. Ansley
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x S.E. Ansley   - at 11:40 am on Friday April 22 2005 x
x The classic story of a legendary man. x
x S.E. Ansley Ali Baba and his 9 Wives The Desert of Sultans - Ali Baba was a good man. He loved his wife, nine of them in fact, but his heart truly went out to one.

She was his best friend, his inspiration, his confidant, and most loyal, trusted supporter. She'd hose down the donkeys, milk the camels, trim his beard and clip his toenails. He built her a castle with his own hands, filled it with cuddly llamas, and ensured pies and luscious cream were readily available for her in the pantry. They loved each other very much.

Ali Baba had eight other wives. Most of them were very close friends who he had met over the years of his travels and cared about all of them. For the most part, Ali Baba had great taste in women. He enjoyed the freedom of meeting new people, men and women, and getting to know them on intimate and spiritual levels.

He met his second wife when he needed an accountant, to take care of his finances. She was helpful and efficient, and their days of counting gold bullions together turned into a brief affair. They made love on a stack of jewels, and never loved again. But they did get married and she continued to do his taxes. They enjoyed wind surfing and canoe building together.

His third wife came by chance. He was searching for hidden water in the desert when a mirage unfolded before him: it was an ocean. The desert turned into beach, the beach turned into a dance party, and the dance party turned into a very bad headache the next morning. So he visited the infirmary, where a nurse tended to his wounds and quickly became a trusted friend. They were married shortly after, and she was his healer.

His fourth wife turned out to be a bitch and a whore, but Ali did not discover this until after the wedding. She was a one-month-stand with enormous breasts and a huge, tight ass gone wrong, and she used him for his wealth and his donkey. While he never forgave her for that sinful act, the two put differences aside to form a deadly tag team poker duo, where they sometimes won a little bit of money (she was also a massive cheater).

Ali Baba's fifth wife was a scholar, who studied at the Sultan's University, and was simply a brilliant mind. She could turn water into energy, and built a prototype of a clean water-fuelled cart that pulled donkeys around the desert, instead of the other way around. They became very close, and she befriended the other wives, which ended in sadness. Everybody was devastated when she was found slaughtered, hacked up and skinned by the head of an oil company. Ali Baba cried non-stop for weeks. The oil company's bullion shares went up.

By Ali Baba's sixth wife, he developed new tastes and appetites for exotic foods. He hired a chef, she cooked the most marvellous meals. He married her for her stuffed roasted monkey, the most sensational delight that wet his palette, and in turn, he wet hers. Their romance was intense, sinful, and had the aroma of a warm fishy loving by the coast.

Seven was a lucky number for Ali Baba. She became Ali's first wife's best and closest female friend. Ali was so delighted, he married her, and the three travelled the seven seas together. They tried a threesome once, but it was weird and uncomfortable. They all remained friends, and went infiltrating together whenever a palace was abandoned.

The eighth wife was another jewel for whom he cared deeply. She was athletic, fit, fast, and beautiful. She kept him in shape with daily runs and aerobics. She also had a strong opinion on politics, which helped him widen the scope of his perspective. Another wife who was readily accepted and cared for by the others.

The ninth and final wife came when Ali Baba was becoming quite old. They met as hostages on a pirate ship, which was targeted for a suicide explosion in the Lairs of Zion. They confided in each other, in their depths of misery, and between their sharp yet scurvy-bitten minds they escaped the ship before it was intercepted by a beast of the sea. They rode a whale to the shore, ran from rabid pygmies and hid in a sand bank until rival pygmies wiped the others out - three weeks later. Their bond was so strong in their adventurous survival that they married, and danced, and loved. The escape took its toll on his health, the healer healed, the accountant made spreadsheets, his cook cooked, and his love loved.

Between his wives he was well taken care of, and most of them took care of one another.

At the end of Ali Baba's life, he died surrounded by eight of his surviving wives, in the arms of his first and most loved wife.

His final words, "I loved many a wife, but you, First Wife, were my best friend", drowned out with a gasp, and Ali was buried deep under the sands of a vast swallowing desert. The wives cried, and moved on with their lives.

The moral of this story is that love is too grand a feeling to restrict to one other person, pastime, hobby or object. When you have learned how to love in genuine, unselfish and equally giving terms, you have learned how to love forever. Love should be shared with as many people as you can love, without interfering with your loves for other things.

Share love, love love, rejoice in love. Ali Baba did, and he led a very good life. Even when he caught that whore taking it from his donkey.
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x Unread post xLaff Yurbatov   - at 11:57 am on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Laff Yurbatov What a nice read!

Thanks Sea!
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x Unread post xJess   - at 12:05 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Jess Ali Baba sounds like a pretty useless guy. His wives could have left him and started their own successful nation with their combined talents and resources, leaving Ali with his well-deserved donkey.
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 12:06 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Universal Sea write your own story.
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x Unread post xMarc   - at 12:11 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Marc Why did BillyT pose for the cover ?
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x Unread post xJess   - at 12:13 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Jess I've written several in my own forum. You've just never bothered to read them.
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x Unread post xZoe   - at 12:40 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Zoe i agree with jess
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x Unread post xVictoria   - at 12:44 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Victoria The story reminded me somewhat of King Alobar in Jitterbug Perfume by Tom Robbins.

It's also awe-inspiring to rejoice in the discovery of ONE who encompasses all of that love and friendship, who you can love forever, genuinely and unselfishly AND still be able to love the world and be loved by it!

I have discovered ONE!
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 12:49 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Universal Sea I think it's selfish.
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x Unread post xMarc   - at 12:56 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Marc "I have discovered ONE! "

"I think it's selfish. "

Whether or not you're naturally monogamous or whatever must be more than an intellectual decision, right ? There's at least some biology involved.

So any individual's ideas on the matter are tied to who they are and how they are made up. Expecting other people to behave the way you do (either to be monogamous or polygamous) is irrational.
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x Unread post xMarc   - at 12:56 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Marc And ... again ... WHY IS BILLYT on the COVER ?!?
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 1:03 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
x don't know re: Billy T x
x Universal Sea I see both sides.

If you commit your full love to one person and that person dies, changes or ends things, that's pretty devastating, so why put all your eggs in one basket?
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 1:04 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Universal Sea it's greed vs. selfishness. there are no clear winners.
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x Unread post xVictoria   - at 1:07 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Victoria Sounds like fear and dissatisfaction
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x Unread post xMarc   - at 1:12 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Marc "If you commit your full love to one person and that person dies, changes or ends things, that's pretty devastating, so why put all your eggs in one basket? "

An intellectual decision. Not.

"it's greed vs. selfishness. there are no clear winners. "

People who are not built like you biologically are greedy ? Not.


We like to think people are like us but they're not. That's why murder is illegal. There are people out there who would do it, so we need a way to deal with that dissimilarity.

There are more monogamists then murders though. I hope.
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 1:13 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Universal Sea

Posted by Victoria:

Sounds like fear and dissatisfaction


works both ways. jealousy comes through fear of losing the other person.
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 1:15 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Universal Sea

Posted by Marc:

We like to think people are like us but they're not. That's why murder is illegal. There are people out there who would do it, so we need a way to deal with that dissimilarity.


Oh yes, placing laws sure cuts down on murders! Laws don't do anything other than deal with messes after they happen.

Note that I have only been exploring both sides of the argument in the past year, not even.
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x Unread post xMarc   - at 1:24 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Marc "Oh yes, placing laws sure cuts down on murders! Laws don't do anything other than deal with messes after they happen."

I think it does.

If you read Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs and Steel" he details interviews with aboriginal peoples and the miserable amount of murder, retaliatory murder and so on that they reported.

Laws arose out of civilization.

"Note that I have only been exploring both sides of the argument in the past year, not even. "

I consider my self a cultural Vasco Da Gama as well.

Boards are good for this.
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 1:42 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Universal Sea there are laws against smoking pot but how many people smoke pot?
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x Unread post xMarc   - at 1:45 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Marc "there are laws against smoking pot but how many people smoke pot? "

Ok.... so not all laws are effective.

But my point about murder being illegal was meant to illustrate that people naturally assume others are like them.

Or something like that. I'm confused now.
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 1:49 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Universal Sea I think the majority of people act on common sense. It does not seem right to kill other people, so people don't, hence murder is a good law. Yet so many people smoke pot, which suggests the laws against it are stupid, just like laws against drugs in general. Laws should punish consequences of actions. If you kill or hurt somebody by driving drunk, stoned, etc, then you should be punished. If you smoke pot or drink in a park when there aren't kids around, I don't think you should go to jail for that (something like 10+ years in New York state for the pot thing).
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x Unread post xJess   - at 2:01 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Jess well I'm sure this is getting off topic, but part of the reason why people are so disobedient about pot laws is because it's fairly common knowledge that the whole reason pot was considered a banned substance had more to do with industry than it did common sense. It wasn't even a prohibition-type thing (since alcohol is arguably a lot more dangerous a substance). It was because the DuPonts et al had a problem with the hemp industry taking such a huge chunk out of their profit margin. So they demonised the whole damn plant and all its uses.

That being said, it's even difficult for some people to take the common sense stance that murder is wrong. Look at how many murders happen regardless of law. Look at how many wars are going on RIGHT NOW. The law is NOT a deterrent for somebody who really wants to take a person's life. A lot of people would willingly turn themselves in and go to jail just so they can enact their revenge (or whatever motive they have.) Read Albert Camus "The Stranger" or Dostoevsky's "Crime and Punishment" for a classic depiction of this. (Yes. I did in fact have a big existentialist fetish for a while.) So really - I guess the law is there to decide the difference between premeditated "murder" and "manslaughter" and then mete out punishment accordingly.
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x Unread post xVictoria   - at 2:01 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
x jealousy comes through fear of losing the other person x
x Victoria Absolutely! Being distrustful of faithfulness is damaging but once ANY setbacks are overcome, then you can feel satisfied with the the great bond that is shared.
It is more selfish to NOT put all of your eggs in one basket
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x Unread post xJess   - at 2:26 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Jess I think "faith" is key to faithfulness.. It's sort of the idea that you can forgive *and* forget transgressions regardless. However, if you find yourself constantly having to do this, then you have to examine whether your faith in the other is misplaced.

Faith and faithfulness can be quite easy in fact. Going back to my new hobby - the tarot - the card of the fool (in more traditional decks) shows him about to walk off the edge of a cliff, thus taking a leap of faith. It's easy to do this when you turn a blind eye to fear. It's less easy to do it repeatedly if you the inevitable fall is a bad one and you fail to learn anything from it - this is where fear can blind *you.* He is accompanied only by his faithful dog and a smiling, benevolent sun.

The hermit card on the other hand shows an old man with a lamp - his own guiding light - with eyes turned to the path at his feet. He is cautious and also alone. In fact, (I could be wrong on this) but he is the mature version of the fool. He has completed a phase of his journey, learned his lessons and has found a form of self-assurance through all of this.

The lovers card is probably the most pertinent to this discussion and an earlier one in the major arcana. It depicts a choice we all make. In some decks it's a choice between purity (the "good" girl) and passion (the worldly matron.) In other decks the choice isn't between two women so much as just a general choice one makes (will have to look that one up) - falling in love is usually about making a choice or many choices along your shared path. Or so I think anyway..

You can learn a lot about human nature from something as irreverent as a deck of cards. smile
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Edited by Jess on April 22 2005 at 1:26 pm
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x Unread post xLaff Yurbatov   - at 2:42 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Laff Yurbatov How out of touch with our animal sides are we? The jobs of men and women with respect to humanity, are to reproduce and keep our species alive. Our instincts are constantly repressed...especially our sexual instincts.

So many jokes about women wanting a secure man or "family", and so many jokes about men only thinking about sex. There is some truth to this and it's biological, not societal. A (healthy) man is able to fertilize any woman who has not reached menopause, for the entire duration of his life. Women stop being able to reproduce. That's why men are attracted to young and voluptious women - because they exude fertility. Men like tits because they look like asses and near the ass is the place where you put your fertilizer.

If you consider the construction of the male & female sex organs, you can speculate on the difference in emotional or mental attachment to sex. Men are external, so to them sex is external and has little to do with real emotion. Women are internal and there is a deeper emotional/mental attachment because of it. With this in mind, one could argue that polygamy is natural.

Religious belief had/has much of the world subscribing to monogamy and let's not forget that the state has been controlled by "The Church" for a long time. Why do you think homosexual marriage is such a controversy? Religeon is just another name for "law", using the fear of God rather than the fear of jail as a deterrent.

Most people are in denial of their own true beliefs and are just trying to be good, law-abiding citizens so they don't go to jail, or hell, whichever or both that apply.

Polygamy is only wrong here because it's not accepted by most people, not because of its fundamental principals.
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x Unread post xMarc   - at 3:48 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Marc Some truth there for sure.

"Most people are in denial of their own true beliefs and are just trying to be good, law-abiding citizens so they don't go to jail, or hell, whichever or both that apply. "

I'd like to add a few other groups:

1) Those who obey 'norms' because they are wise enough to see the results of any disgressions they may commit.
2) Those who have no desire to stray outside of norms.

"Polygamy is only wrong here because it's not accepted by most people, not because of its fundamental principals. "

As you point out, women (mostly) bio-programmed to hate it, men (mostly) bio-programmed to like it.

And people generally, in this thread and otherwise, expect others to behave as they do.
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x Unread post xMarc   - at 3:48 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Marc ...and why did BillyT pose for this cover ?...
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 4:14 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Universal Sea I already answered that, can it. I'm not sure men are pre-programmed to accept it, I sure wasn't. It's a choice people learn along the way of their lives. Many women do it too - see: slutty women.

good points Laff.
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x Unread post xJess   - at 4:20 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Jess You see, it seems to me that this "spreading the seed" argument is really just a big con game to shirk responsibility for one's actions. You can blame biology or whatever, but then that makes you no better than a feral animal.

I'm sure it works both ways, too in that women are prone to overactive nesting instincts; but arguing that it's just biology doesn't really provide a solution does it? It's an excuse and a shortcut to real self-examination.
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 4:24 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Universal Sea For the umpteenth time, you as a woman have no - and I repeat, NO - idea what it feels like to be a man. You have no clue. If 99% of men say they have these urges, then why not believe them? You think it's a fucking ploy to lure women into bed? It's as biological as your periods or "maternal" instincts. Our "paternal" instinct is to ejaculate. We are creatures, like every other species. Our goal is to replicate, with very little else. Because we are advanced enough we have medicine, surgery, transplants, know what foods are good and bad for us, and we live a long time. Everything else is wasting and passing time until we die, simple as that.
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x Unread post xJess   - at 4:32 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Jess Wow no wonder you want to kill yourself. What a boring, empty and pointless point of view.

And you presume to know how I feel? Like I've never been horny before? Please.. Cry me a river.
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 4:33 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Universal Sea it's just the way it is. We serve as much a purpose as the cows we eat and the plants we destroy.
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x Unread post xJess   - at 4:35 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Jess Really? And if you believe that, then why do you go to such great lengths to throw events?
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 4:38 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Universal Sea They make my life exciting and full in the short term while making as many other people's lives as similarly enjoyable as possible. What, you think there's a greater good that is supposed to come out of them?
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x Unread post xJess   - at 5:01 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Jess That's really up to you, isn't? It's not my job to find a higher purpose in *your* life.

Try thinking outside of the short-term, if that's possible. Dig into the past if you have to.
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 5:03 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Universal Sea not saying it is. I'm saying I kinda want to live my life myself, possibly alone.
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x Unread post xLaff Yurbatov   - at 5:05 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Laff Yurbatov

Posted by Jess:

You see, it seems to me that this "spreading the seed" argument is really just a big con game to shirk responsibility for one's actions. You can blame biology or whatever, but then that makes you no better than a feral animal.

I'm sure it works both ways, too in that women are prone to overactive nesting instincts; but arguing that it's just biology doesn't really provide a solution does it? It's an excuse and a shortcut to real self-examination.


For me this is a result of real self-examination...and what's there to solve?
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x Unread post xMarc   - at 5:08 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Marc "what's there to solve?"

If two people care about each other but one or the other has to make a huge sacrifice in order to make it work, then it's a problem.
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 5:11 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Universal Sea I don't see it as a problem other than if it has to be one way or the other and a "unique" compromise can't be worked out, I'll happily go on my own way. Sure it will be very hard at first, but time heals all wounds, and death down the road absolves them.

Humans can never achieve absolute freedom if they're tied and bound to somebody else. I would rather be free, than tied down, I am caged by nobody unless I choose to be where I am, not to a place, not to a person, not to friends, not to a philosophy.
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x Unread post xLaff Yurbatov   - at 5:15 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Laff Yurbatov

Posted by Marc:

"what's there to solve?"

If two people care about each other but one or the other has to make a huge sacrifice in order to make it work, then it's a problem.


Only if you consider it a sacrifice and that's just a matter of subjectivity. Sacrifice and acceptance are close but very different.
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x Unread post xxJess   - at 5:16 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Jess

Posted by Laff Yurbatov:

For me this is a result of real self-examination...and what's there to solve?


So you're basically saying that you're nothing more than biological urges and that the sum total of your existence comes down to how many offspring you can leave behind (nevermind caring for them and making sure that they grow and develop into something that doesn't contribute to an overpopulated and unsustainable planet?)

I suppose whatever makes you "happy."
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 5:17 pm on Friday April 22 2005 x
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x Universal Sea zer0g mentioned something recently about only humans have meaning, the universe's existence doesn't have to have a reason or meaning for anything.
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