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MP3 DJ rig I'm thinking of building for live performance.
by zer0G
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 8:53 pm on Wednesday July 20‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G I’m sure cheap suitable laptop for performance will come out shortly.

Especially when you stick to a past generation of software. New software versions are not always better. I mean I like to version of traktor that came out before as opposed to the version out now, so finding a cheap system to run the older version should be no problem soon.

Another option would be to run it through the Boss GS 10 Multi effects unit. Even though it’s mainly for guitar, and only has a mono input, it can be controlled via a usb and it’s own software. A pic of it here…
http://www.bossus.com/MultimediaFile/gs10/editor.html

Would work next to a laptop.

As a guitar unit I would not use it, but for processing digital loops I would.

But really all mono input effects can be considered somewhat problematic.

Another (cheap) solution would be to use the regular soundcard stereo out set to monitor and output (instead of left and right sides) within Traktor. This would offer the headphone monitor and the mono output for the multi-effects. It sacrifices stereo but that can be added in the multi-effects unit.


Gah! Used pedals are so cheap though, but bulky.
http://instruments.listings.ebay.ca/Parts-Accessories_Effects-Pedals_W0QQfclZ3QQloglZ1QQsacatZ41410QQsocmdZListingItemList


Using one of these full of pedals on the table besides the laptop would be pretty funny.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41412&item=7336735811&rd=1
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Edited by zer0G on July 20‚ 2005 at 7:56 pm
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 9:03 pm on Wednesday July 20‚ 2005 x
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x Universal Sea Nothing wrong with having foot pedals to trigger effects to free up your hands for other things.

Build your own little rack.
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 9:08 pm on Wednesday July 20‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G Oh no, I am not using them as foot pedals. I want to be able to adjust all the controls on them with my hands and alter the parameters as part of the processing element of the performance. Say 6 pedals on a board and each has at least 3 parameters. That's 18 parameters I can change on the fly (with my hands), not to mention just turning the pedals on and off.
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 9:37 pm on Wednesday July 20‚ 2005 x
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x Universal Sea What if you want to manipulate effects while you are mixing one track into the next?
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x Unread post xjeffwith1f   - at 9:41 pm on Wednesday July 20‚ 2005 x
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x jeffwith1f never underestimate the power of being able to use your feet as well as your hands to achive maximum manipulation power.
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 9:45 pm on Wednesday July 20‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G I generally set-up a grove first with the computer then tweak it after. Just the way I do it.

Ideally a separate chain of effects for each “deck” would be the way to go with the ability to preview the sound first.

Say a pre-mixer effects loop for each deck basically.
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 9:48 pm on Wednesday July 20‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G

Posted by jeffwith1f:

never underestimate the power of being able to use your feet as well as your hands to achive maximum manipulation power.



I’m trying to keep all cable/parts to a minimum. I really don't want to deal with all that setup and forgetting stuff and stuff not working right etc.

Not only that but in terms of MIDI controllers there is everything you can imagine as a controller source out there.

I was looking at bio-feedback stuff years ago. Like using your brain waves to control sound.
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Edited by zer0G on July 20‚ 2005 at 8:48 pm
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x Unread post xjeffwith1f   - at 10:00 pm on Wednesday July 20‚ 2005 x
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x jeffwith1f very cool.
I hear the cables thing.

i recently simplified my rig. went from using 13 speakers in 2 full sized cabinents (4X12" and 9X8") and a 10 space rack filled with gear (10 cables) to 1 head, 4 cables, 2 1/2 sized cabinets (2X12") with 4 speakers total.

it's better, smaller, lighter, uses less connections and is faster to setup adn tear down by quite a margin.

still use too many guitars......freaking tunings.......need at least 5 or 6 to play sets now...

K.I.S.S.
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 10:04 pm on Wednesday July 20‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G I want to be able to carry everything in a regular sized knapsack and be able to setup in say 5-10 min.
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x Unread post xJess   - at 10:33 pm on Wednesday July 20‚ 2005 x
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x Jess 13 speakers???

Maybe that's not a lot but it sounds like a lot..
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x Unread post xjeffwith1f   - at 10:41 pm on Wednesday July 20‚ 2005 x
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x jeffwith1f no, that's a stuipid lot.
great old Traynor cabinet, had 9 speakers in it (actually a Bass cabinet)
worked ok with the old setup, sounded a bit harsh with the new one.

simpler is better
smaller is better
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 10:42 pm on Wednesday July 20‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G Pedals...

  
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x Unread post xjeffwith1f   - at 10:47 pm on Wednesday July 20‚ 2005 x
x yeah baby x
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yeah baby

yeah baby
where my feet go

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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 10:50 pm on Wednesday July 20‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G It needs more buttons and pedals.
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x Unread post xjeffwith1f   - at 10:59 pm on Wednesday July 20‚ 2005 x
x well...it helps me drive this.... x
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well...it helps me drive this....

well...it helps me drive this....
lights up like a chrismas tree

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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 11:05 pm on Wednesday July 20‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G I used to have a gear fetish and used to think from the gear to the audience.

Now I'm more interested in composition and creating a mood for the audience.

So, I'm thinking from the audience back inward, looking at a party as a work of art... of sorts. That and being a quasi-spiritual social experience, either negative or positive or both.

Community is more important than materials.
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Edited by zer0G on July 20‚ 2005 at 10:06 pm
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 12:43 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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x Universal Sea I'd suggest not getting too carried away plotting out effects. Mixers that would appear at many clubs like the Pioneer DJM-500 have effects in the mixer. No points spending more money and having to lug more stuff around if you can't find suitable software. Most new mixers have them.
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 1:16 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
x Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook x
x Universal Sea Link: Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook

Half the price of the Indigo cards, same high quality audio features.
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 4:34 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G

Posted by universal sea:

I'd suggest not getting too carried away plotting out effects. Mixers that would appear at many clubs like the Pioneer DJM-500 have effects in the mixer. No points spending more money and having to lug more stuff around if you can't find suitable software. Most new mixers have them.



Uh what ???

I don't need to use a mixer at all. I can mix in the software, that is the whole idea. People with physical decks or CD players need the mixer. I don't at all.

Plus mixer based effects are usally shit and can vary quite a bit and are limited.

Case in point the Pioneer DJM-500...

"Delay: A single repeat of 1/2, 3/4, and 1/1 beat music can be overlaid over a track. For example, with 1/2 Beat Delay, four beats will be increased to eight, while using the 3/4 Beat Delay produces a "leap sound" effect.

Echo: Repeatedly overlaying beats of 1/2, 3/4, and 1/1 is simple. Cutting in 1/1 beat Echo can create an intriguing fade to the beat; applying it to the mike causes microphone output to be reproduced repeatedly to the same beat.

Auto Pan: The left-right balance can be changed automatically to the rhythm as rapidly as you like. Auto Pan can do rhythmic switches too quick for human operators.

Flanger: Switching to the Flanger effect produces synthesizer tones quickly and easily.

Pitch Shifter: The Pitch Shifter corrects for changes in pitch within a range of +/- 1 octave when using analog turntables or other vendors' CD players. Used with the mic, the Pitch Shifter can alter voices.

Reverb: A variety of reverberation effects are available."


Not really what I had in mind.
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 4:37 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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x Universal Sea So what, you'll just plug your laptop into the amp & PA bypassing the system's mixer?

surely there must be a small, portable, effects mixer, possibly like a MIDI based controller so you can assign any thing to any control.
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 4:39 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G

Posted by universal sea:

Half the price of the Indigo cards, same high quality audio features.


I think the whole point of the Echo DJ thing is that it has two stereo outputs.
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 4:44 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G

Posted by universal sea:

So what, you'll just plug your laptop into the amp & PA bypassing the system's mixer?

surely there must be a small, portable, effects mixer, possibly like a MIDI based controller so you can assign any thing to any control.



No I'll bypass all the DJ mixer stuff and go directly into the house board/PA. That way my sound is actually more consistent and the set-up is easy. Just one stereo RCA cable or whatever.

There are portable effects units. The Boss one I mentioned earlier in the thread would be an example.


The Sound Blaster Laptop card only has one stereo out and one stereo in.
http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=204&product=10769&nav=2#
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 5:01 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
x Soundblaster has multiple outputs through external dongle x
x Universal Sea Link: Soundblaster has multiple outputs through external dongle


the Audigy 2 ZS Notebook makes a compelling case for upgrading from your laptop's built-in audio jacks and onboard sound chip, which generally sound mediocre at best.

The Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Notebook is downright unobtrusive. Inserted into our laptop's PC Card slot, the card stuck out approximately 1 inch from the computer's side. To preserve its small stature, the card has only three jacks, although two of them serve dual purposes: a minijack headphone output/optical out, a minijack microphone input/optical in, and a proprietary port to which you can connect an included adapter that adds three analog outputs for multimedia speaker sets with up to 7.1-channels.


Yes but those are multi-speaker outputs so there could be level problems (but likely they would be ok). Also will the DJ software etc. understand them as seperate multiple outouts or do they only respond to stuff that is for multi-speakers? Also if you lose the adaptor or forget it you are fucked.


Basically when it comes down to it I'd have to test it out.
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Edited by zer0G on July 21‚ 2005 at 4:12 pm
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 6:02 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G One thing about the Echo card for making music is...

"A unique feature of the Indigo IO is the use of "virtual" outputs. Indigo IO appears to software as if it has eight separate outputs, which are digitally mixed down to the physical outputs using Indigo IO's "console" software and its on-board DSP. This makes Indigo IO compatible with all popular multi-track software. And, with Echo's "multi-client" drivers, more than one application (such as an editor and a software synth) can be playing back through Indigo IO at the same time."


But for the simple app that I want to us the Sound Blaster looks like it would be fine. Overkill actually.
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Edited by zer0G on July 21‚ 2005 at 5:03 pm
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 6:05 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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x Universal Sea I'm trying for the Indigo I/O, unless they create an Indigo DJ I/O before I buy the thing.
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 6:23 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
x NoWax - Mp3s replacing vinyl x
x Universal Sea Link: NoWax - Mp3s replacing vinyl

An interesting idea but not if you'd want people to dance.
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 6:31 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G

Posted by universal sea:

An interesting idea but not if you'd want people to dance.



Meanwhile you were mixing mp3 files at the Christmas party 5 years ago.
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 6:33 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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x Universal Sea

Posted by zer0G:

Meanwhile you were mixing mp3 files at the Christmas party 5 years ago.


At the September and October parties that year too. At Acid Hallowe'en, Otis (and Toxic too I believe) told me it was "cheating".

Apparently there are "laptop parties" in the UK:

http://www.planet-mu.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=128798&t=128798
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 6:35 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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x Universal Sea Possible UM Laptop DJ Roster 2006: (alphabetical order)

- DJ Jones (played 4th green party, will play 5th one too)
- Mentalfloss (played 4th green party)
- Nata Reel Rasta (same as Jones)
- Universal Sea
- Zer0g
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 6:41 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G Oh now (in the last 2 years) there have been lots of people doing it.

But it's still kind of uncommon here.
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 6:42 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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Posted by universal sea:

Possible UM Laptop DJ Roster 2006: (alphabetical order)

- DJ Jones (played 4th green party, will play 5th one too)
- Mentalfloss (played 4th green party)
- Nata Reel Rasta (same as Jones)
- Universal Sea
- Zer0g


Gets even better if you also have someone mixing visuals etc.
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 6:44 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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x Universal Sea That's why with my MIDI controller and that Edirol video mixing pad visuals are more than possible. I love doing live lights/lasers. Jess also is interested in live visuals, as she did for the Dec. 11th party.
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 7:07 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G The only problem is the digital projector, but sure have that set up one a powerful system and then have one over several VJ's mixing along with the DJ's. They don't even have to all go at the same time of in sequence etc. But you can have a MP3j and a Vj line-up list on the virtual flyer.

The less complicated and more portable the better though. Like say one or two projectors or even a few large televisions... or a bunch of shitty televisions, some work / some don't all hooked up to a router box. They can be given away or thrown out after the show.
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Edited by zer0G on July 21‚ 2005 at 6:09 pm
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 7:12 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G At $1000 and up Multimedia Projectors are still a rental thing...
http://www.staples.ca/ENG/Catalog/cat_class.asp?CatIds=89,153&name=CA%5FCL%5FMultimedia+Projectors
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 9:01 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
x Ableton Live for Live & Production effects x
x Universal Sea Link: Ableton Live for Live & Production effects

Effects/Plugins
These are programs that don’t work on their own but require a host program to function. I think everybody should own the Waves Power Pack, Orange Vocoder, and GRM Tools and Cycling '74 Pluggo. The Waves Power Pack is a collection of plug-ins that cover just about all bases for both performance and production. The Power Pack comes with great compression, reverb, delays, eq, and other effects that have made the Power Pack almost mandatory for serious production. Orange Vocoder is a vocoder plug-in that enables you to put that robot voice sound on your tracks. What many don’t know is that you can put anything through a vocoder. Putting drums through a vocoder makes for a rhythmic ethereal-synthy kind of sound. GRM Tools is a collection of exceptional filters with awesome controls. They are very flexible, allow for a lot of creativity and simply sound great. Pluggo is probably the best deal in effects/plugins offering close to a hundred effects.

[they also recommended Ableton Live]

http://www.computersandmusic.com/sitemap/w/Laptop_Musicians_66.htm
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 9:24 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G I downloaded that demo already, it is not a live performance tool in my opinion but a composition tool. Check out the demo and you will see it’s like Reason. I don't know why they would promote it as a live tool.
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x Unread post xJess   - at 11:55 pm on Thursday July 21‚ 2005 x
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x Jess

Jess also is interested in live visuals, as she did for the Dec. 11th party.


I wouldn't call that "mixing" per se; but if I had the gear I'd jump on that for sure
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 10:54 pm on Friday July 22‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G Hindsight…

It may have been better to invest the party money into some “innovative” gear for everyone then go from there in any space.

It's useful to think in terms of a budget per instrument be it audio or visual.

Also we all have computers.
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Edited by zer0G on July 22‚ 2005 at 9:55 pm
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x Unread post xUniversal Sea   - at 11:01 pm on Friday July 22‚ 2005 x
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x Universal Sea The party money was a sliver of the educational capacities it provided. Big parties with strangers and quotas make no sense.

I'm going to take a look at what appears to be a more refreshing scene in NZ, then come back and apply my learnings to new endeavours. I can completely see a laptop-based multimedia weekend on a private island or two.
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x Unread post xzer0G   - at 4:47 pm on Saturday July 30‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G Well I decided to go the multiple effects pedal route. Basically because no one unit has what I want. This way I can select the various pedals I like.

I got the Boss Phaser and am quite happy with it. It adds a interesting twist to the sound. Has some really original sounds to it. I doubt that guitarists really use it to it's full potential. I tend to use it in twisted fucked up ways.

Next on the list is the Moog Ring Modulator.


The guitar store I went to was total comedy. I ask to preview the pedal with my MP3 player and tell them I don't care what amp I use I just want a clean sound. Then they ask me what I want to use the pedal for. lololololol I tell them and they look at me like I am from another planet. hhaahahahaah
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x Unread post xxzer0G   - at 6:08 pm on Saturday July 30‚ 2005 x
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x zer0G The Boss Phase Shifter is pretty funny when I run Sun Ra jazz loops through it.
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